Calling on Meir and Kalman

Hi there,

Are you a private Kashrus business who has a more lenient (you will say pure) take on just about everything (yes we know about your comments re your Mashgiach Temidi at the mostly Treif Limor’s and how you are ‘better’ than KA) and are there for a combination of profit and wages for yourselves, together with a dose of ‘we are a God fearing service who are here to provide more options to the genuine kosher consumer’ and we are not getting rich from Kashrus

OR

Are you a business whose aim is NOT to make profit but to ‘benefit’ the we don’t eat treyf community with all manner of new delicacies like the Manna of yore.

Which is it? We know of your unsubstantiated claims re Rabbi Rudzki whose hechsher the frum world across the board did not rely on, but who was a fine man. We know of the attempts at legitimisation by rather transparently poor attempts at ‘association’ with respected Rabonim of the past and present. Those convince nobody. They are actually an insult to anyone with half a brain or half an honest approach to life. It’s good that you continue this line of pseudo self justification as opposed to telling us with whom you did Shimush in Kashrus.

Tell us about your financial policy. Are you profit makers through providing licences or are you jewish utopians who do favours with your expansionist views of what’s not treyf.

Meir, do your children and family eat at your establishments or have your food products in their houses? Does your wife eat Krispy Creme now? Is it only because of alignment with Beis HaTalmud or Adass that stops them trusting Daddy or Zeyda? You know the answers. Share them?

Do you drink Chalav Hacompanies?

You guys LOVE publicity … How about actually answering these questions or are we just going to see you visit Shule after Shule week after week, often talking (self promotion?) and not seemingly davening at many Shules? I watched you mysteriously turn up for Eicha I think it was at Elwood once. You were too late turned around and left. What’s the deal?

Oh, I see it as do the Oilom at large.

But I’m not a ‘Rav Hamachshir’ I’m just a regular from the Poshei Yisroel who wouldn’t touch ‘it’s not treyf’ with a barge pole.

In case you are wondering, what promoted this post was my experience in South Africa where things are done right.

Author: pitputim

I've enjoyed being a computer science professor in Melbourne, Australia, as well as band leader/singer for the Schnapps Band over many years. My high schooling was in Chabad and I continued at Yeshivat Kerem B'Yavneh in Israel and later in life at Machon L'Hora'ah, Yeshivas Halichos Olam.

38 thoughts on “Calling on Meir and Kalman”

      1. there are 1,200 kashrut agencies worldwide. 50% are community owned and 50% are privately owned. draw your own conclusions!

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        1. I drew mine for Melbourne
          Don’t take it personally but I like the one authority model with open books
          The shande of cornucopia of hechsherim around the world are terrible

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          1. kosher australia is owned by the mizrachi kehilah, you and I are not able to ‘view the books.’ ask m broner the treasurer to show you the books and see his reaction. kalman

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  3. I heard an interesting and alternate take on your experience and explanation for the cohesiveness of the J’Burg community.

    This comes from an individual who lived there and therefore has a little more insight than a visitor (even though we say: “a gast vor a weil seht a mile.”).

    Since Mandela ‘freed’ Black South Africa from the oppression of Apartheid what has supplanted it has essentially been violence and corruption.

    For the Whites they have had to retreat into ‘gated communities’ meaning that they live behind huge fences and automatic gates to protect from the violence and robbery that freely takes
    place outside these communities.

    ‘Car-jacking’ is common and if confronted people readily will give up their money and/or car in exchange for their life. The police and the public unofficially accept this and don’t do much to combat it owing the abject poverty of many Blacks and lack of resources to follow up any leads.

    What does this have to do with us?

    No one likes to live locked up in their ‘castle’ all the time. We like to venture out. The question is where does one go?

    What we take for granted; to walk down the street, go to a Sholom Zochor or walk/cycle to school is unthinkable, one would be risking one’s life!

    The solution for those who have decided that there is enough to stay for is that when they do go out they only visit and patronise Jewish establishments. Thus, Jewish restaurants and eateries, Shuls and youth clubs. Here in the company of fellow Jews they not only feel safe but at the same time can socialise and and feel like a mentsh (and even half imagine they are living in a normal country!) As a result these establishments take on an importance beyond their initial use and purpose, but as places to meet up, hang out and relax.

    Jews, irrespective of their religious affiliation, literally wouldn’t be seen ‘dead’ in non-Jewish establishments because that is precisely what they are trying to avoid! The risk is too great so they avoid them in favour of the Jewish ‘meeting’ places they are familiar with and feel safe in.

    This is not to negate your thesis but to add a different perspective.

    Now this begs the question, of those expats who have settled here, do they still maintain the same behavioral traits they exhibited back in SA or when the external forces are removed they in turn become ‘normalised’? Do they still attend shul as regularly or support and patronise kosher eateries in the same way?

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    1. Ahem
      I was talking about Kashrus cohesiveness and the Jewish community.
      There is no reform and the people go to Shule and they eat kosher too because there are no private businesses and their is unity

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  4. So being a private business makes you both a nogeya bedovor and so many different ways that it would be fair to say that it isn’t a legitimate kashrus authority after all?
    Disgraceful!!!

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      1. I hesitated posting it but given its about Kashrus and Meir’s business partner, who no doubt has moved on since then (we all have skeletons) I thought it right to include it for a fulsome picture.

        The name Gradman rings a bell. One of my beloved violin teachers was Maurice Gradman

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            1. I am a 20 year member of ohel devora in meadow street and have seen you davening their from time to time. I will introduce myself to you on shabbos next time I see you there. my children attend yeshivah-beth rivka, I loosely follow minhag chabad, chaim tvzi is my rabbi and good friend, you know about my bankrupcy- everything else is just commentary

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    2. Whilst I strongly disagree with Shoshana’s “After all, we all have some skeletons in the closet”, which is one of the famous excuses we see employed these days to excuse bad behaviour, (some people live lives without ever ripping off others or even hurting them in any way), I am happy for you to delete these 5 comments if you like.

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  6. Isaac, I agree with your stance on the issue regarding kashrus but I disagree with your posting this article about Kalman. It is a personal attack. Stick to issues not personalities. It is also ancient history, maybe Kalman did teshuvah? Let’s stick to arguing about how their kashrus organisation is not up to scratch without getting into a cat fight. After all, we all have some skeletons in the closet and it is almost Yud Shevat.

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            2. I know Meir well. He was in my class at Yeshiva College. He’s a smart dude and almost as argumentative as me.

              My advice to him is to do a year of Shimush in Kashrus with Rav Schachter

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            3. I know he spoke with rav schachter last week and I think he would dearly love that. seems unlikely-too much politics/money in kashrus. kalman

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            4. I speak with Rav Schachter too. He should spend a year with him. Nothing like being nurtured by a Rov with experience and Kol HaTorah Kulah at his finger tips. I love him

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  7. My comment about ‘skeletons’ in the closet should not be taken out of context as it does not mean I believe we should use it to excuse our own bad behaviour. Perhaps a more accurate way to express what I meant is this: none of us are perfect. If you want to find bad on people for personal attack there will always be something to either find or exaggerate. Let’s stick to issues.

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    1. Is that what Yeshivah said about Kramer. etc “none of us are perfect. If you want to find bad on people for personal attack there will always be something to either find or exaggerate.”

      As I said before, not everyone does mind numbingly immoral acts, so no, you ‘can’t always find bad on people’. Especially if you perport to be frum.

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    2. I am talking about morality generally and your infuriating ‘skeleton in the cupboard’ metaphor and how people turn a blind eye because they too have behaved badly in some way. We should be taking the morally high ground and not trying to find excuses for bad behaviour. You retracted the skeleton comment only to re-iterate it using other words.

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  9. A few comments on some of material that has been posted.
    The Profit and Loss account of Kosher Australia is included the Mizrachi annual report.
    As far as I know Mizrachi will supply a copy on request even to non members.

    The structure of the Kehila in South Africa is very formal as compared to here.
    There is an association/union of the orthodox shules. They appoint a Chief rabbi. They have a Beth din that deals with ALL halachic matters.
    Hence it is much easier to have one common standard of Kashruss.
    I believe that even Chabad is part of that structure.
    There was a group led Rabbi Sternbuch, who are more charedi, who I think had their own shechita. Our community is very much less cohesive.

    Our current communal players in the field -Chabad, Adass, Mizrachi- all have a vested interested in guarding their own turf either for financial reasons or for prestige and kudos.

    If there was genuine desire to “sort out” kashruss and there was ” goodwill ” amongst the current “operators” something could be worked out.

    Here are two possible “utopian” solutions:

    For example : all shechita would be under chabad, all catering and retail outlets under Adass and supervision and certification of food manufacturing under Mizrachi.
    The Rabbinic authorities of the 3 bodies would need to work with each other to resolve halachic differences under this model.
    I believe that currently there is a fair amount of co-operation between Adass and Chabad with the regard to the shechita of poultry.
    Such a structure might even be able to address the matter of the cost of kosher meat and more particularly poultry.

    An even more “utopian” solution:
    If there was the goodwill on the the part of the current “operators”, I am sure that we could arrive at a mechanism/formula that gave financial compensation to the “operators” for their loss of revenue- in commercial terms- paying them for acquiring their business.
    The administrate structure would be under a lay ( and perhaps rabbinic) body that represented all sections of the community.The formula would need ensure that funds/profits are allocated to advancing kashrut and kashrut observance in addition to the payments to the current operators.
    The halachic side of the “operation” would be under the Rabbis of the 3 communities and perhaps a division of labour between shechita manufacturing and catering/retail.

    As I said this is a utopian idea that may be well before its time. If it was implemented it may bring moshiach but to implement it we may need a moshiach.

    I hope that at least this may be the start of people in our community taking up the matter in trying to deal with it in a reasoned and though process.
    Let hear some other views.

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    1. Thanks, but I’d rather get out of Galus.

      By the way, some people have told me (is it true?) that you now call yourself DAYAN
      Would you kindly advise a) if this is true, b) whether you are a Dayan of a Beis Din, and which Beis Din, and c) who appointed you.

      I mean, I’ve also been a Dayan a number of times …

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