I have seen pictures even official Shule pictures in their magazines of Rabbonim officiating at weddings where the Bride is rather “fully out there” in respect of lack of Tzniyus. What gives?
Rav Soloveitchik refused to officiate at such weddings. Once when he found himself caught out, he kept asking others to get him a bigger and bigger Siddur (he also refused to do Chuppas in a Shule). When he had a really big Siddur he then officiated in a way that he could not see the bride (rather than embarrass her) and looked into his Siddur and said the Brachos etc. The Rav didn’t compromise his Judaism or our holy Mesora. The word fidelity to Judaism comes to mind.
I do not know why Kallah teachers, and every Rabbi don’t insist that each bride go to a proper inspiring Kallah teacher, where they are all told that they must wear some sort of fancy scarf covering up the parts that should be covered under the Chuppa. What are they afraid of, that they go to a Reform ceremony instead? Reform are empty. Everyone knows that. The RCV should adopt this stance as a matter of policy and no Rabbi should break the rule.
I bumped into a “Jewish” celebrant at the chemist. I looked at her and her face rang a bell. I asked her “where do I know you from?”. She then told me what she did. I then remembered. It was one wedding I did at the last minute, where they had the “ceremony” on the dance floor just before we started playing. The bride was marrying a gentile unbeknown to me and it was one of the very few times I was caught out. I told the celebrant that for the entire week after that wedding I was literally ill. She asked me why. I said
“because you are a great pretender, and you have zero to do with any authenticity, you are a blender of bull, who makes up things as you go along. That couple were never married Jewishly and all you facilitated was an impending assimilation. Your little Tallis and your blowing a Shofar were as authentic as Michael Jackson’s skin colour.”
She looked at me like I was from Mars and scowled. I told her to have a nice day, and to discover real Judaism rather than the concocted monstrosity she was selling for a fee.
It’s time some Rabbonim in our community who are so concerned about populist interfaith dialogue, LGBT, aboriginal rights, and social justice, actually bothered to also be concerned about Mesora and implement proper Jewish Laws and customs at a Chuppa and were not “afraid” of putting Yiddishkeit first.
I remember the days when Rabbonim specified there was to be no mixed dancing until Benching and no female singers until then. Yes, you can definitely bench before dessert and have the “King Street Disco” until midnight. Why are we so bashful to make our weddings JEWISH in flavour? I know gentiles who come home from such weddings wondering why Jews were imitating them, except that for them a wedding is big with 70 people and for us it’s at least 300 כן ירבו.
I’ve watched standards drop alarmingly over the years. Holocaust survivors had MORE questions about God than our modern Gen kids, but they didn’t abandon Mesora. Our young Gen call their children by any name that sounds more gentile than a gentile, and need to be shaken up. Sometimes you don’t even see the Jewish name in the Jewish News. Did they ever get one or is it טיפני בריטני׳ (Tiffany Brittania)
If they are having a Jewish Wedding, then make them do it properly. No “Kosher Style”, no weak compromises. Strength begets strength. It’s not the Orthodox who are assimilating, it is the Reform that assimilate in alarming levels, and the Conservative who become Reform.
It’s time Rabbonim realised that whilst it’s great to be “cool” and “friendly” and “populist” there are strict lines and they should insist on them. Frankly, it used to be unthinkable not to have the Rabbi at a Simcha in the days of old. Today, even the friendly Rabbi often isn’t invited so they don’t see the “shrimp” and pritzus.
Rav Schachter told me that it is preferable to have a Bar Mitzvah call up on a Monday or Thursday than cause חילול שבת … Maybe the father will even put on Tefillin and they can video the entire event. Is there something holy about Maftir on Shabbos? It’s not even from the main Aliyos.
PS. I don’t attend weddings that are Treyf and they offer to order me a Kosher Meal double wrapped while I sit at a table struggling with the silver foil, tape, and glad wrap, as everything spills on me, and others think I’m a Charedi weirdo. I’d rather give a present and say enjoy your party, but don’t call it a Jewish Wedding Simcha. It’s a wedding populated by Jews.
pitputim 
One thing that you seem to believe is that your “brand” of Judaism is the one and only true way
Regarding this:
“because you are a great pretender, and you have zero to do with any authenticity, you are a blender of bull, who makes up things as you go along. That couple were never married Jewishly and all you facilitated was an impending assimilation. Your little Tallis and your blowing a Shofar were as authentic as Michael Jackson’s skin colour.” She looked at me like I was from Mars and scowled’
What planet ARE you from where this is an acceptable way to speak to another person. What give you the right to pass down judgment? And why must you repeat your judgmental thought out loud to the people you are judging?
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It’s not MY way! It’s the way of ALL Orthodox Jews. This charlatan makes up JEWISH marriage ceremonies on the fly and she charges for her creativity.
I have an absolute right to condemn her views and I felt it was as important for her to not be delusional in thinking that it’s legitimate. She is a huge anti establishmentarianist and has nuked Mesora through her creative drama. I have a right to tell her. Nobody was there. In addition it was she who asked me what made me ill about her pantomime. When they broke a glass they all broke out into a Polish folk song. Brech. This is not a JEWISH wedding!
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I am not advocating that Orthodoxy adopt these practices, my point was that your manner is doing way more harm than good.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:54 AM, pitputim wrote:
> pitputim commented: “It’s not MY way! It’s the way of ALL Orthodox Jews. > This charlatan makes up JEWISH marriage ceremonies on the fly and she > charges for her creativity. I have an absolute right to condemn her views > and I felt it was as important for her to not be delusiona” >
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My manner was in fact designed to criticise a SHULE MAGAZINE for publishing pictures of such Chuppas. Can you defend that practice? In fact it was a Shule magazine that caused me to write the post. It’s one thing when it happens, but does a Shule publish pictures of brides with their mammary glands prominently “out there”. I also know that Rabbi’s demand a Mikva ticket (even though many have been living together for years). How about demanding compulsory Bride classes where there is a chance they will learn about the holiness of marriage, and most certainly won’t require a tent to cover them up under the Chuppa. Where do the Eidim look, at her toes?
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Shmuel, there is only one “brand” of Judaism. The various reform movements are knock-offs, frauds, and ought to be just as illegal as knock-off Louis Vitton luggage or Swatch watches. And anyone has the right to tell a blatant fraud what they think of them.
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Let’s for a moment say that you both are right. Don’t you think that these people have never had the opportunity like you to grow up with the “truth”. Would you abuse someone who is simply ignorant? And what is scribes by this vitriol? Why not create a dialogue instead of frothing at the mouth and spewing abuse at people who disagree with your world view?
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She is far from ignorant. She knows exactly what perversion she perpetrates and needs to get the message that her work is illegitimate
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Does she have malicious intent to undermine God? What about the poor brides you have been so quick to ridicule and talk of as if they were harlots? You are sitting on a very high horse. I hope for your sake it does throw you off because you have a long way to fall
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She abhors orthodoxy and thinks she is reforming the world as a Jewish CIVIL celebrant
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Oh and you’ve missed my ‘target’ … It is Rabonim not the clueless
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I am not talking about your manner in relation to theb magazines, rather how you speak to people you disagree with in a manner which is unbecoming of one who is defending Torah values
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Perhaps you feel my language was too boisterous. Let me say, I’m furious at Rabonim who have no guts to enforce Halacha and are more interested in showing blatant Erva in their Shule Magazines. The Chosen and Kallah aren’t to blame. The Rabbinate has MUCH to answer for.
PS. Such Chasanim and Kallos don’t read my blog and I’d NEVER talk like that to them, and hence my call to send them to charismatic Kalah teachers and not simply ask for a receipt from the Mikva.
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Finally, it needs to be a GROUP decision by all Rabonim. No ifs no buts.
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Okay I will describe the cleavage in neutral tones. It’s the רע בנים I target
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“I’d NEVER talk like that to them”
That is good to know. But should you talk to anyone like that? Do you think that that aggressive and confrontational language will help and proliferate Orthodox ideology? If anything it does the opposite
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You need to appreciate my frustration is with רבנים. Not the עמך who are clueless.
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Isaac I have just realised you live in the wrong country
http://www.mantlethought.org/international-affairs/confronting-modesty-feminism-iran
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I’ve just realised it’s probably a waste of time responding to someone who doesn’t seem to understand that at a Holy, yes Holy nuptial one Rabbis should insist on appropriate dress or send them to those who will do it.
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What YOU do not realise is that you prove positive the rule that holding the rule book in one hand and laying down the law is definitely not a source of goodness or kindness.
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I’m not sure what you are talking about but ONCE MORE the Rabbis are my focus here
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Oh and the ‘rule book’ is what the Rabbi is required to uphold or do you have some higher notion that they should follow in conducting ceremonies
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By the way, they won’t marry you if you haven’t had a snip either. Maybe they should just forget that too
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You know as full well that that is not my point. I am talking about that fact that it is too easy to preach from your soap box, lay down the law and pass judgement on those who you feel do not live up to your particular perspective on how one should live there lives. You have never shown concern, love or any real consideration for those who do not live in YOUR world.
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What are you talking about. Do you know me? Do you know who comes to my house. You haven’t got a clue. I don’t lay down any laws. I gave my opinion on Rabbis who have become lax
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You to easily and are too comfortable to lay down the “law” than to consider what the ramifications are of your “sincere” religious and halachick concerns are. You appear to preach with no consideration for the effects of your comments have on those they are directed at or those who are the subject matter for your supposed unaffiliated rabbinic pontifications.
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What are you on? There are Torah infractions and you want the Keepers of Torah to condone it ? It’s a short hop and Jump to Reform–the movement who singlehandedly caused unimaginable assimilation. I suppose Isla Fisher and Chelsea Clinton are our future
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Let’s get real and educate
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Educate with the carrot or stick?
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Kale
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So does one use kale to “beat” those who disagree with you or use it as a way to understand your perspective ?
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I have spoken directly to Rabbis about this and done so vociferously unless you feel I should pat them on the shoulder and give them a shot of kale juice. I repeat. Please remember. My prime criticism is the lack of a unified stand and dignified stand by the Rabbinic Council of Victoria. I’m sure you know that women are required to go to the Mikva and if taught by a charismatic and with it teacher they may well adopt the practice.
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“What are you on?” Implies that I must have some diagnosed (and medicated) psychiatric disorder to have dared disagree with your world view.
The question is .. What AREN’T you on?
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No it means you could have had a few Lchaims too many if you concoct an argument that Rabbis should ignore the laws they were trained to teach and uphold
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With the advent of the Internet and social media, we are living in a more promiscuous and secular world. Since we are living in a Goyisher world, unless the Yetzer Hora can withstand it and resist the temptation of it, Non-orthodox Jewry in particular may be influenced by non-Jewish society. Since this may, or in many circumstances, this is the case, you can see the result
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Strengthen the Yetzer Tov and feed it and you will kill your Yetzer Hora
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“What are you on?” is derogatory and does not mean “you could have had a few Lchaims too many.” You would have said “What have you been drinking?”, which is also derogatory. Would someone talk to their parents or a Rav like that? The internet gives us plenty of opportunity to be objective and polite as it can’t just slip-out out of our mouths before we hit ‘return’.
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Fine. It is also a way of saying ‘think properly for a minute’ … Given that I don’t know if it’s a real name I’m writing to, I will win hold an apology until I do. Apologising to a fake name makes little sense.
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It’s not about an apology and it’s not whether he is using a pseudonym or not. It’s about talking courteously LChatchila to everyone. If people disagree strongly they can still be polite and objective. I think that was the point Shmuel Abromovitch was making in the first place.
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