The intrepid ‘hashgocho’ strikes again

(Guest Post)

I received this from a reader.

On 1 January Meir Rabi posted on his Facebook page and website that Krispy Kreme’s glazed doughnut is kosher (see http://www.kosherveyosher.com/products–services.html).

However, Krispy Kreme has NO KNOWLEDGE of Meir Rabi’s hechsher!

See my correspondence with them below.

Obviously, Meir Rabi did not contact the company for information, nor visit the production facilities.

Yet again, he has declared a product kosher without ANY investigation whatsoever!

> From: australia2@krispykreme.com.au
> To:
> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 08:06:44 +1100
> Subject: RE: Contact form from krispykreme.com.au
>
> Hi xxx,
>
> Thank you for your enquiry.
>
> Unfortunately, Krispy Kreme Australia products are not Kosher certified.
>
> Kind Regards

Author: pitputim

I'm a computer science professor in Melbourne, Australia. I skylark as the band leader/singer for the Schnapps band. My high schooling was in Chabad and I continued at Yeshivat Kerem B'Yavneh in Israel.

23 thoughts on “The intrepid ‘hashgocho’ strikes again”

  1. I don’t see how you determined that he didn’t contact the company. How do your eyes look at “we are not certified” and your brain turn that into “Meir Rabi has never contacted us”? One has nothing to do with the other. Contacting a company does not automatically cause its products to be certified!

    The simplest explanation that is consistent with both facts you present is that he did speak to the company, found out what’s in their products and how they’re prepared, and determined that one of their products is already kosher, so he’s sharing that information as a community service, without being paid for it. He may have offered his services as a paid certifier, but they weren’t interested, especially if it would only be for that one product.

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      1. Isaac do you drink soft drinks and juices that are kosher in Sydney but not kosher in Melbourne? Does one ‘abide’ by the Melbourne rules alone, and when you are a guest at the Rabbi’s house, you end up not drinking what the Rabbi drinks?

        I think R Rabi is trying to matar food that is essentially kosher. Apparently KK use kosher ingredients.

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        1. There are leniences that make sense in Sydney but not Melbourne. Being opportunistic in Melbourne and not submitting your books to public scrutiny is forbotten. It is also at the root of Sydney’s issues now. Kashrus is a service and should not be a profit making venture. If it makes money that should be used to lower costs and/or provide educational programs.

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          1. Whether a leniency makes sense is a judgment call. A person has the right (and even, to some extent, a duty) to be machmir on himself, but not on others. There are surely people in Melbourne for whom KA’s chumros don’t make sense, or are too much.

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      2. No, I won’t eat them; if nothing else, they’re cholov akum unless one relies on Reb Moshe’s heter, which I prefer not to do. Even without that, I would rather not rely on KVY’s judgment of what is kosher and what isn’t. But that doesn’t mean it’s treif, and it doesn’t create a contradiction between the two data you present as if they were some sort of scandal. If something is actually kosher, it doesn’t need a hechsher; a hechsher is merely a method for determining the truth, and other methods of doing so are also valid.

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    1. You cannot mention him in the same breath as Rav Abadi. He still hasn’t told us who he did Shimush in Kashrus under. Mesora is transmitted through Shimush. It is only the Reb Moshe’s of this world who can pasken with out acharonim as they know Kol HaTorah kulah

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    2. The lack of Bishul Yisrael is the least of the problems with It’s Kosher. The use of the machinery to produce treif is much more of a fundamental concern…

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  2. Saying that something is kosher because it has no trief ingredients does not make it certified.
    In your posting you use the word “hechsher”.
    Kosher Australia uses the term “certified” for what we understand to be a “hechsher”.

    To find the “smoking gun” you would need to know for sure that the manufacturer did not have any communication – telephone, email, mail etc- in relation to the ingredients and the manufacturing process.
    Having said all this I complement you on your vigilance.

    Moshe

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    1. There will no doubt be a I said they said nobody understood type discussion. It only serves to provide publicity so I don’t go there.
      The modus operandi should be enough to confirm what many have known and thought.

      We do NOT need a 3rd column Hashgocho and it would be best if Adass folded into Kosher Australia as well.

      Melbourne recall only needs ONE proper and I informed hechsher

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      1. pitputim

        you think that it would be best if Adass folded into Kosher Australia as well, but did you also think that there isn’t a chance that addas will fold as long there is money to be made from hashgachot.

        IF Melbourne needs 1 proper and I informed hechsher, who will run it? the rcv (rabbinical club of victoria), Kosher Australis isn’t a Melbourne community or the Australian Jewry Hechsher, it is a private Hechsher that belongs to an Organization that is based in Melbourne Australia

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        1. All financials should be under the COSV

          Mizrachi should agree to a full audit so that any expenditure be returned.

          It should then be returned to a subcommittee of the Beis Din with the same experts in charge of Halacha

          There should be one sticker on all foods that are approved, like the OU

          When that happens all private hashgochas should find new work

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    2. Hi Moshe, Most of what is written here about the krispy kreme ‘original glazed’ donut is nonsense. We deal with Byron-QA manager and Amanda-National Marketing Manager/SYD at Krispy Kreme Australia and Rabbi Isaac is right we love the free publicity! we currently kosher certify 100+ clients (commercial and industrial) and 2,500+ products. kalman
      Hi Moshe, Most of what is written here about the krispy kreme ‘original glazed’ donut is nonsense. We deal with Byron-QA manager and Amanda-National Marketing Manager/SYD at Krispy Kreme Australia and Rabbi Isaac is right we love the free publicity! we currently kosher certify 100+ clients (commercial and industrial) and 2,500+ products. kalman

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      1. Rabbi Rabi has been asked repeatedly on the It’s Kosher Facebook page by a poster (not me) whether he visited the Krispy Kreme production facilities. The good Rabbi has simply refused to answer the question.

        If indeed Kalman or Rabbi Rabi were in contact with the QA and marketing managers, it does not negate the fact that no site visit was undertaken to check the processes or machinery.

        Similarly, as noted on this blog and also in this week’s Jewish News, no site visit was ever undertaken to ascertain the production process of Slurpees. Nor, indeed, was there any attempt to contact the company prior to It’s Kosher declaring the flavours in question kosher.

        How on earth can Rabbi Rabi justify basing kashrus solely on a product’s ingredients? Even the most meikil agencies overseas undertake an assessment of contributory ingredients sourced from overseas, a thorough consideration of the shared use of equipment in the factories, etc.

        As Rabbi Moshe Gutnick has noted on several occasions when being asked to state his opinion of It’s Kosher, there is a basic level of ne’emanus missing.

        From the laffa matzos (which the factory owner says were produced with chometz flour in an insufficiently heated oven) to the numerous other questionable decisions culminating in the latest scandal, there is a fundamental level of trust that is absent.

        Part of this lack of ne’emanus stems from the mistruths and misrepresentations on the It’s Kosher/KvY website. The front-page letter from the London Beth Din is entirely a misrepresentation. Despite a request from the LBD almost seven years ago (!) demanding that Rabbi Rabi remove the letter, he has not done so. The letter in question could be misinterpreted as endorsing Rabbi Rabi’s kashrus, which it was not intended to do.

        Similarly, the claim on the site that It’s Kosher is somehow endorsed by the Israeli Rabbanut is fraudulent, as noted in recent statements from the rabbinate in both Melbourne and Sydney. The Rabbanut does not accept It’s Kosher/KvY as a hechsher that it is willing to give an ishur to. As RCV President Rabbi Meir Shlomo Kluwgant said in a statement at the time: “Leaving aside the concerns expressed to the RCV relating to the Halachic standards adopted by the said business, this misleading statement about the Israeli Rabbanut is deeply concerning to the RCV. If it is the case that the false statement was made to mislead and deceive the public by claiming that its Hechsher is supported by the Israeli Rabbinate, this would call into question the integrity of those running the ‘It’s Kosher’ business”.

        If these factors are not enough, there are also issues relating to Rabbi Rabi’s lack of shimush, his refusal to provide clear or relevant answers to halachic questions posed, his acceptance of gelatine and cochineal, the lack of financial or community accountability, etc.

        Unfortunately all is not kosher at It’s Kosher.

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        1. There is no doubt that there is a strange silence about the operation.

          I’d this a partnership between Meir and his offsider designed to make income, or is it some communal service which pays its way and follows a different path.

          If the latter, let’s see the books. Kashrus and Money making are a recipe for historical problems

          Like

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