Category: Chassuneh

Rabbonim when the Bride is flashing Erva D’Orayso?

I have seen pictures even official Shule pictures in their magazines of Rabbonim officiating at weddings where the Bride is rather “fully out there” in respect of lack of Tzniyus. What gives?

Rav Soloveitchik refused to officiate at such weddings. Once when he found himself caught out, he kept asking others to get him a bigger and bigger Siddur (he also refused to do Chuppas in a Shule). When he had a really big Siddur he then officiated in a way that he could not see the bride (rather than embarrass her) and looked into his Siddur and said the Brachos etc. The Rav didn’t compromise his Judaism or our holy Mesora. The word fidelity to Judaism comes to mind.

I do not know why Kallah teachers, and every Rabbi don’t insist that each bride go to a proper inspiring Kallah teacher, where they are all told that they must wear some sort of fancy scarf covering up the parts that should be covered under the Chuppa. What are they afraid of, that they go to a Reform ceremony instead? Reform are empty. Everyone knows that. The RCV should adopt this stance as a matter of policy and no Rabbi should break the rule.

I bumped into a “Jewish” celebrant at the chemist. I looked at her and her face rang a bell. I asked her “where do I know you from?”. She then told me what she did. I then remembered. It was one wedding I did at the last minute, where they had the “ceremony” on the dance floor just before we started playing. The bride was marrying a gentile unbeknown to me and it was one of the very few times I was caught out. I told the celebrant that for the entire week after that wedding I was literally ill. She asked me why. I said

“because you are a great pretender, and you have zero to do with any authenticity, you are a blender of bull, who makes up things as you go along. That couple were never married Jewishly and all you facilitated was an impending assimilation. Your little Tallis and your blowing a Shofar were as authentic as Michael Jackson’s skin colour.”

She looked at me like I was from Mars and scowled. I told her to have a nice day, and to discover real Judaism rather than the concocted monstrosity she was selling for a fee.

It’s time some Rabbonim in  our community who are so concerned about populist interfaith dialogue, LGBT, aboriginal rights, and social justice, actually bothered to also be concerned about Mesora and implement proper Jewish Laws and customs at a Chuppa and were not “afraid” of putting Yiddishkeit first.

I remember the days when Rabbonim specified there was to be no mixed dancing until Benching and no female singers until then. Yes, you can definitely bench before dessert and have the “King Street Disco” until midnight. Why are we so bashful to make our weddings JEWISH in flavour? I know gentiles who come home from such weddings wondering why Jews were imitating them, except that for them a wedding is big with 70 people and for us it’s at least 300 כן ירבו.

I’ve watched standards drop alarmingly over the years. Holocaust survivors had MORE questions about God than our modern Gen kids, but they didn’t abandon Mesora. Our young Gen call their children by any name that sounds more gentile than a gentile, and need to be shaken up. Sometimes you don’t even see the Jewish name in the Jewish News. Did they ever get one or is it   טיפני בריטני׳ (Tiffany Brittania)

If they are having a Jewish Wedding, then make them do it properly. No “Kosher Style”, no weak compromises. Strength begets strength. It’s not the Orthodox who are assimilating, it is the Reform that assimilate in alarming levels, and the Conservative who become Reform.

It’s time Rabbonim realised that whilst it’s great to be “cool” and “friendly” and “populist” there are strict lines and they should insist on them. Frankly, it used to be unthinkable not to have the Rabbi at a Simcha in the days of old. Today, even the friendly Rabbi often isn’t invited so they don’t see the “shrimp” and pritzus.

Rav Schachter told me that it is preferable to have a Bar Mitzvah call up on a Monday or Thursday than cause חילול שבת … Maybe the father will even put on Tefillin and they can video the entire event. Is there something holy about Maftir on Shabbos? It’s not even from the main Aliyos.

PS. I don’t attend weddings that are Treyf and they offer to order me a Kosher Meal double wrapped while I sit at a table struggling with the silver foil, tape, and glad wrap, as everything spills on me, and others think I’m a Charedi weirdo. I’d rather give a present and say enjoy your party, but don’t call it a Jewish Wedding Simcha. It’s a wedding populated by Jews.

Mixed Gender Functions

[Hat tip MD]

Recently, a question was asked of the Charedi Leumi Posek, Rav Aviner, about a 50 year reunion of a group of couples who had been part of a youth group 50 years prior. They would be attending, were frum, all with their wives, and the idea was that they would recollect memories and have an enjoyable evening. The question asked to him was

Is such a reunion permitted according to Halacha

I guess the mere fact that they asked Rav Aviner the question before going ahead with their reunion is testament to their frumkeit and fidelity to Halacha. Those who are not so beholden to their Rabbi, would not even ask a question.

At any rate, Rav Aviner’s answer was

“חלילה. זו מכבסת מילים לפעילות מעורבת. זה איסור חמור גם אם אלו יראי שמים. ולצערנו יש פעמים רבות פעילות המשך

In other words, definitely not permitted and is a serious halachic infraction even if the participants are frum! Rav Aviner opines that unfortunately, there are sometimes serious outcomes from such events.

In other words, age makes no difference, and one would assume, a fortiori, that this would be forbidden for younger couples. I won’t extrapolate to mixed tables of singles at a wedding who are looking for Shidduchim. Rav Aviner may have the same opinion as R’ Aron Soltoveitchik that this isn’t just permitted but desirable. It is dangerous to extrapolate in Halacha.

Upon hearing of this Psak, respected Rav Amnon Bazak (whose writings I am acquainted with and if I am not mistaken he may have visited Melbourne) of Har Etzyon, disagreed with Rav Aviner on three grounds.

  1. The attitude of the Rishonim and Acharonim on issues such as this, was and is tightly connected with the practices in such communities. In other words, if it was common place for men and women to meet, then Poskim such as the Bach, opined that it is permitted (if you want to read more about this examine the issue of whether to say שהשמחה במעונו at a mixed Sheva Brachos. If my memory serves me correctly, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch is Machmir and says no). The point of Rav Bazak was that this is something which may well change from community to community. I wouldn’t expect this to happen in Satmar, or Belz, where the women aren’t even allowed to drive cars, of course.
  2. If one wants to say “those who are stringent will get a blessing”, this leaves is a sour taste because the idea that they get a blessing on account of people who really are not doing anything wrong according to plain Halacha.
  3. What’s the point in putting out words like ‘absolutely forbidden’ when this happens all the time, at tables, which involve Chachomim and Roshei Yeshivah at their meals?

There is also the question of when you have two long tables at a Sheva Brachos one with men and the other with women without a Mechitza. Some will still say this is “mixed” other will not, even according to those who argue with the Bach.

Mori V’Rabbi, R’ Hershel Schachter relates that R’ Moshe Feinstein ז’ל and R’ Yaakov Kaminetzy ז’ל  and others made weddings and there were mixed tables. He does however caution that times have changed somewhat to those days. He doesn’t use Rav Bazak’s arguments but notes that

  1. Women tend not to wear the ornate thick dresses that they wore in yesteryear, and sometimes, perhaps too often, are on the boundary of Tzniyus with flimsy clothing which leaves little to the imagination
  2. The music in those days was much slower and it was rare to find a women or man return to the table shvitzing with all that comes from that phenomenon and fine cloth.

Accordingly, he suggests caution at weddings.

Your views? I believe this is societal and something according to הרגלם and will change from group to group to the extent that a blanket opinion is elusive and probably not advised.

There is a lot of “Ess Past Nisht” and I’m not arguing. I’m just quoting and adding to this article

בענין סתירת הרמבם שלא יתערבו או שלא יסתכלו זה את זה,  כבר דשו ביה רבים

Undoubtedly one of the most special weddings you will ever see

Even if your Ivrit is not great, you will get the gist of what is going on. The Chosson also has Smicha!

This is an incredible wedding in every sense of the word.

Watch Here

When does a Woman not exist?

its old news that Adass chassidic will not write even the first initial of a lady. My wife would be known as ‘mrs I Balbin’ this is certainly a hall mark of Hungarian chassidic practice as well as some Russian/Polish chassidic.

contrast this to the wedding invitation that R Chaim Brisker used for his son Mishe’s wedding (Moshe Soloveitchik was the father of the Rav. He had signed it as ‘Chaim and Lifshe Soloveitchij’. No appellations and her name was ‘out in the wild’, heaven forfend. 

A wonderful sight

I’ve performed at many weddings, some most special and others even tragic. I’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly (with apologies to Sergio Leone). The other night I was a guest at a wedding and witnessed a scene that was a first for me in Melbourne.

I was ready and due to commence a dance set. However, at the head table, the father of the bride happens to also be a long-term Rosh Yeshivah also celebrating his 70th birthday. There were probably 50 or more of his Talmidim who gravitated to the head table in a line. Each of them wanted to say L’Chaim to their Rosh Yeshivah. One sees this in Israel and undoubtedly in the USA, but I hadn’t seen it in Melbourne.

Alcohol consumption was strictly controlled and likely based on the (oft ignored) teachings of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. I didn’t see a single person who was “sloshed”. Each Talmid, waited for their turn, and drank from a thimble full plastic cup saying L’Chaim to the Rosh Yeshivah.

There was no way I could interrupt this spontaneity by starting a dance set. I felt this was a unique moment, and sensed that the Rosh Yeshivah, Rabbi Binyomin Cohen, was in a heightened state and that his Talmidim wanted to share that moment.

I was touched, and dared not interrupt the process, marvelling at the order and respect and the way this wasn’t formally choreographed. The best parts of weddings are actually the spontaneous unchoreographed moments.

As it settled, I played what is known now as the Chabadzke Niggun, which ironically is definitely an old Chabad Nigun (sung then at a somewhat slower pace). It was made famous more recently by non Chabad people. I think Berry Webber was the one who put it on the map. It is a catchy tune and happened also to be one of Rabbi Cohen’s favourites and requests.

I commenced with that Nigun, and while I normally switch songs after a reasonable number of repetitions, in this case, I saw the דבקות in Rabbi Cohen’s eyes, and his entire body undulated with that Nigun. I kept it going until he had no more energy to continue, and only then, changed to the next tune.

It was an uplifting moment. I saw someone going through the motions because he had  much grief of late. I yelled out to him שמחה פורץ גדר … he acknowledged and nodded his head with intent and hauled himself into the moment.

In summary, this was a touching wedding.

PS. someone needs to drill these points

  • don’t come late if you can help it. People pay good money for your participation
  • don’t stand around the bar while there is dancing. Do a mitzvah and dance!
  • don’t speak during a dvar torah; control yourself for 5 minutes and remain silent.
  • dry red wine isn’t meant to be served chilled 🙂
Rabbi Binyomin Cohen, Rosh Yeshivah

Priorities warped on Haredi websites?

I was looking for an article in either the Yeshivah World News or in Matzav for some coverage of the faults identified in the Royal Commission into abuse. Both of these publications are hardly pro Chabad, and yet, unless I missed it, I failed to see a single mention. That of itself, if I am correct (and I’d be happy to proved wrong) is an inditement on the Haredi world, where Chabad is considered on the left fringe anyway.

In what way is this not news? Why shouldn’t Haredi readers know about what is public knowledge? It’s simple. They deal with their problems “in-house”. Here, I don’t mean the Rabbi Groner approach of seeking out experts and not being aware that the proclivity might be described as a disease. No, in these communities nothing at all has changed.

And yet, sorry folks, if you are a Litvak, I am Posul as a witness according to the following from YWN

Maran HaGaon HaRav Aaron Yehuda Leib Shteinman Shlita spoke out regarding persons using iPhones, stating they are pasul l’eidus.

HaGaon HaRav Moshe Yehuda Schneider tells of the gadol hador’s words in the weekly Pri Chaim publication. He explains “we merited hearing Maran’s opinion regarding iPhones, the impure device, and I am presenting these words after Rabbeinu questioned regarding a bochur that R”L fell victim as a result”.

He begins by stating the Rosh Yeshiva was made aware of the high cost of such a phone, resulting in his response that it is quite costly to sin and people are willing to pay a great deal of money – the main thing is to sin. He adds that a good esrog is less expensive and when he heard one person say that one who spends so much on an iPhone will not buy an expensive esrog, Rav Shteinman stated this is not necessarily so, for there are those who will pay for an esrog, as well as for an iPhone l’havdil.

Rav Shteinman was informed that HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Halevy Wosner Shlita ruled one who possesses an iPhone is ‘pasul l’eidus’ as Rav Wosner disqualified a witness at a chupah when learning of his phone. Rav Shteinman stated “The Klall is a prohibition that incurs malkos renders one pasul from d’oraissa and a prohibition that does not incur malkos only pasuls d’rabbonon. Hence, one with an iPhone is pasul from eidus d’rabbonon since malkos are not involved here.

This reminds me of the farcical situation when Rabbi Benyamin Wurtzburger, Rosh Kollel of the Lakewood Kollel who was Mesader Kiddushin at a wedding, publicly attempted to make Dayan Telsner, Pasul as a witness, because of his contention (which is probably correct) that Dayan Telsner is a Meshichist. Ironically, phone calls to Rabbi Beck from Adass to Wurtzurger were needed to make him understand that one is not Pasul for having some far-flung view, which is out of touch with the Rambam and Mesora.

Where are our priorities? Will Rav Shteinman be happy with cheap Samsungs or HTC or ? Does have the remotest clue what the difference between this is?

Rabbi Wurtzburger seated left, next to Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Groner

 

Dates in a Kesuba: response to my cousin, Rabbi Yaron Gottlieb

I don’t use Facebook except with my gentile alumni where I keep in touch and try to help them in their evolving lives.

And, so, I was not aware of a post from my cousin Yaron.

Yaron asks a question: if Scientists say the world is older than we know it to be, then perhaps we should leave out the date from a Kesuba completely.

Firstly, Yaron, in Shtar, we are not concerned with the various views of Scientists on the age of the world per se. You will be aware, of course, that there are various approaches that have been put to reconcile B’Reishis with those Scientific observations.

The point of a Ksuba Shtar is to give testimony that two Kosher witnesses attest to undertakings of a Chosson on the day of marriage to his better half. As such, saying we witnessed an undertaking on Thursday without any mention of a date, is a no brainer. Such a Kesuba is Posul, and I challenge you to find me a Rishon who says that such a Shtar has any status. Were these witnesses alive on the unstated date. I can’t even begin to think of a logical Svara that such an idea makes any sense, but do educate me.

For your reference, Yaron, please note the following:

  • The Mahari Mintz in note 109, comments that Ksubos of his time would count from the time of the reign of a given King. If you like, you might wish to approach a prominent expert like Rav Schachter and ask him, whether you could write instead “2 year’s into Obama’s second term” as an alternative.
  • It is for this reason that we use the words למנין שאנו מונים כאן. For that reason alone, and without any inference to Science and/or the allegory of Bereishis (the interested reader should do themselves and read Rabbi Slifkin’s book on this topic, in general) your question makes little sense to me. One needs an understood and oft-used point of reference for a date. Whether someone no longer write dates on  Shtaros as a result of difficulties reconciling Bereishis with various Scientific views is of no relevance whatsoever to דיני שטרות.
  • See also the נתיבות המשפט חידושים סק״ג in respect of חושן משפט  סימן מג ס״ב that not writing למנין שאנו מונים כאן does not Pasul a Ksuba because it is known and understand that this is now the Minhag of the Jewish world in terms of setting a date.
  • The english version says explicitly “corresponding to ” the gentile date. It’s about setting a known date system.

In conclusion, I do not understand why this was a question you posed.

Please note, that even the invalid Reform Kesuba, as produced below from Judaism.com has the traditional date. I guess we are lucky that Adam and Eve were born on the same day, or were they according to Science 🙂

A Reform Kesuba (which is INVALID for Orthodox Jews)

 

How may a bride and bridegroom converse (if at all) in the modern age

Like many people, we have a range of whatsapp (TM) groups that are most useful for select group conversations. They are like instantaneous sms’s through the Internet that are received by those who are permitted to be subscribed.

Before both my daughter’s weddings we had two special groups, one with one set of Mechutonim and the Chosson and Kallah, and another with the other Mechutonim and the the other Chosson and Kallah. We used it to exchange various operational and tactical approaches to putting the Chassuneh together, as well as exchanging a picture every now and again.

As the Chassunos approached, I wondered, in response to a question from one of my daughters whether they could remain on the whatsapp group, even if they didn’t contribute per se directly to the Chosson and vice versa or whether this was a type of conversation akin to a more old fashioned group telephone call.

With whatsapp, one does not see the participants, unlike say, FaceTime (TM) and Skype (TM). I promised to ask Mori V’Rabbi R’ Hershel Schachter. His response for those who are interested was:

this is not a real din – it is a new minhag that was invented in recent years. They should do whatever they feel is right…

Minhag Tzanz (from vosizneis)